Comments on this Story
1. Comment by Paul M. (Midi) — March 2,2008 @ 12:26AM
Ratings:   -32 +19 When people are greedy, be fearful.
When people are fearful, be greedy.
HeckofaHousingBubble!
Thank you Mr Greenscam.
2. Comment by Shane Y. (Shane Y.) — March 2,2008 @ 12:49AM Ratings: 2+8 The real estate agents and brokers are a lot better at what they do than most buyers are at buying a home. They barrage the buyer with forms and papers to sign, which becomes a blur to many buyers. Even the old inspection report should have noted a problem like an unvented stove.
3. Comment by D T. (Worn Western) — March 2,2008 @ 1:13AM Ratings: -15 +16 Well, thank you, Captain Obvious.
4. Comment by wayne p. (#6426) — March 2,2008 @ 2:26AM Ratings: -13 +47 Should not get into a mortgage you cannot afford regardless - no sympathy from me
but Long is not a very good agency
5. Comment by Bill Y. (Concerned Tucsonan) — March 2,2008 @ 4:04AM Ratings: -15 +48 Good real estate agents would never help get anyone into a situation like this. Buyer beware. A good real estate agent would have insisted on an inspection report from a competent inspector. Some inspectors are clueless. A good real estate agent would never let their client get a loan that would be this risky.
Long knew that they had messed up. They would not have offered any money for repairs if they did not fear liability. There are several good real estate attorneys in Tucson. I suggest this buyer, and anyone else taken advantage of, should contact an attorney.
6. Comment by Jeffrey H. (flibber) — March 2,2008 @ 4:25AM Ratings: -10 +35 What happened to caveat emptor?
I've noticed of late that agents go over the contracts point by point. Also, there are some home inspectors that kill deals by stating the obvious, e.g. features that a home does not have; and simply comparing older homes with newer codes, in order to mask their ignorance. A seller would know more about his home than an inspector who is seeing it for the first time, yet the buyer and seller are kept apart. This should not be.
In spite of this a seller would be wise to insist that a buyer get an inspection, for the seller's protection if not for the buyer's. Victim, victim, everyone's a victim.
7. Comment by Patty B. (desert krone) — March 2,2008 @ 5:08AM Ratings: -13 +38 We have had a similar experience with Long Realty. It now turns out that our house has major structural problems that our home inspector failed to mention. Also, we have right of way problems with our well site, which our Long realtor failed to mention to us.
8. Comment by Bob K. (THS) — March 2,2008 @ 5:19AM Ratings: -15 +35 The seller, DeConcini's son, Timothy Hagyard, made more than $63,000 on the sale after paying off a mortgage and transaction costs, according to a settlement statement.
Sloppy reporting about a sloppy real estate transaction. How much the seller "made" cannot be determined from a settlement statement. He might have taken home $63,000, but he might have sunk more than that into a down payment and improvements. 9. Comment by Jesse P. (jlp) — March 2,2008 @ 5:55AM Ratings: -3 +33 [This comment has been removed]
10. Comment by Chuck T. (soaz) — March 2,2008 @ 6:14AM Ratings: -6 +22 #2-"They barrage the buyer with forms and papers..." The forms are not invented by an agent. The agent just has to deal with them, mostly because people are looking for any excuse to sue. Disclose, disclose, disclose.
#5_"A good real estate agent would have insisted on an inspection report..." He should insist that the buyer have an inspection at $250-$450. He can't insist that the buyer pay for anything. You must be an inspector.
11. Comment by David H. (#84094) — March 2,2008 @ 6:20AM Ratings: -9 +23 So how old was the inspection report and who paid for it? Many times the seller will provide it and could ask the inspector not to list items needing repairs.
Wonder if the owner is an investor looking to maximize profit.
12. Comment by Hugh J. (#1406) — March 2,2008 @ 6:33AM Ratings: -9 +49 -"He said he tried to ask questions about documents, but little was explained to him."_
If "little was explained" then you can't know enough to buy.
As John Wayne said: "Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."
13. Comment by Joan T. (roaxle) — March 2,2008 @ 6:34AM Ratings: -16 +33 I'm always amazed that people enter into the largest transaction of their lives so blindly. Many people do not realize that all realtors ultimately represent sellers, not buyers. Their whole goal is to get you into a house at the highest possible price.
As usual, the answer is education. I suspect these people were naive, didn't know where to go for answers, and probably didn't even know what questions to ask.
14. Comment by M M. (Oldster) — March 2,2008 @ 6:53AM Ratings: -15 +27 I put Realtors right up there with Lawyers and used car Salesman....this "housing bust" is due to the purchasers being stupid, and their stupidity made a lot of Loan Officers rich. When your loan adjusts to the higher interest rate can you make the payment? If you lost your job tomorrow do you have enough $$ put aside to make your mortgage payments until you can find another job? This is another case of "I want" instead of "I can afford"....when you purchase a home can you afford to keep it up, that's not cheap!
If your buying a house why on earth would you allow an "inspector" chosen by the Seller, their agent or your agent to give you a fair and balanced inspection report? Hire your own inspector....and check out THEIR reputations.
This is a case of a buyer that had no business purchasing this home if they didn't have all their questions answered...
And as a side note, I would NEVER do business with or be represented by Long Realty.....
15. Comment by Wayne M. (redrag) — March 2,2008 @ 6:53AM Ratings: -9 +32 No one can pressure you to do what you know you should not do. You read it, you signed.
16. Comment by Daniel G. (gdobie1) — March 2,2008 @ 7:34AM Ratings: -5 +35 Let's see, Ellis Herman claims--1)forclosure was the agent's fault had she not push him into it 2)They were not allowed sufficient access to the house before they bought it. 3)mortgage broker inflated Herman's income on application to make the sale go through. 4) The agent urged to buy quickly and told him it would not last. 5)He used a old inspection on the advice on his agent to save money. 6)had a loan approved that was too expensive. That makes 6 red flags the owner should have seen and questioned before signing anything. Herman said, "If anything, I'm guilty and ignorant of trusting people. Yes and using common sense. If the agent and broker were that bad, I would have gotten another broker.
17. Comment by bob f. (fischer76) — March 2,2008 @ 7:37AM Ratings: -16 +23 I sure hope Susie put in the paperwork that her son was the owner.
Failure to disclose, disclose, disclose is another clear sign.
Also since both agents where from long the other paperwork should have been the dual disclosure which PREVENTS agents from being absolutely HONEST with both parties.
Collusion is the course I see here.
I'm sure a good attorney could pick this apart in say 5 minutes!!!
Of course he will want money up front and these folks simply don't have it - now do they.
I saw a statistic the other day on PBS by Bill Moyers and I'm sure I'll get them wrong but here we go.
87% of the black middle class doesn't have 3 months worth of savings in case of emergency.
76% of hispanic middle class don't have this either.
The middle class is shrinking greatly in this last little crisis and will do so even more.
Watch out when they want to re-distribute the wealth stolen by the ultra-rich!!!!!
18. Comment by rickster F. (ricksterFromTheBus) — March 2,2008 @ 7:50AM Ratings: -17 +14 Realtors are in the same category as lawyers and payday loan companies IMHO. Sure what they're doing is perfectly legal, but is it ethical?
19. Comment by Majors L. (theduke) — March 2,2008 @ 7:57AM Ratings:   -8 +13 [This comment has been removed]
20. Comment by shelby m. (Maggie2) — March 2,2008 @ 8:03AM Ratings: -7 +17 Buy low sell high, its a formula that works. Everything goes in cycles. Purchasing a home when the market is hot is not a good thing, just wait and things always settle down.
However, my question is why didn't the agents require a home warrenty on the home, especially one this old? A real estate attorney once told me when I sell a home myself to make sure everything has a guarantee on it. Buyers, just make sure everything has a guarantee on it whether you use an agent or not. Also, read all the loan docs before signing, trust is not the issue here, its accountability.
21. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 8:04AM Ratings: -11 +28 Everyone gets named in this story "Except" the so called inspector!?
Who was the inspector that performed the report used by the buyer??
Was he a "Friend of Long Realty", ... 'wink, 'wink.
This smells rotten. Seller uses Mommy to be listing agent. Selling agent just happens to be friends and company partner of listing agent. No new independent inspection is done, just use and "Old Inspection".
Who was the inspection performed for??
Who was this Mystery Inspector??
Long Gone Realty is in the Deep Doo Doo on this one.
Ethics Violations - Absolutely.
Criminal if not Civil Penalties - Without a Doubt
Hang 'Em High!
22. Comment by Bobo A. (#4323) — March 2,2008 @ 8:06AM Ratings: -5 +29 #17 Bob - I know a whole lot of white middle class families that don't have three months of expenses saved. Did PBS give that statistic?
23. Comment by Jesus R. (Razor) — March 2,2008 @ 8:06AM Ratings: -4 +25 caveat emptor...its only the biggest investment in your life , why be informed??
24. Comment by Bill B. (#4485) — March 2,2008 @ 8:15AM
Ratings: -13 +16 this deal stinks bad! sure buyer beware, but this old geezer was in the right place to be taken advantage of.. and my opinion they did. the husband.. was the loan officer, the son the home owner? made $63,000 on the deal? one broken down old house.. to much family in critical positions in the path of this deal going to completion. To much insider fannangling with docuemnts, source of funds, home owner, we have this and that.. its ok.. sign here sign here... blam.. your own a pile ooohh junk. It should be investigated by the reality what ever overview. This was a scam.
25. Comment by Michael B. (#1967) — March 2,2008 @ 8:20AM Ratings: -2 +18 #22 - "#17 Bob - I know a whole lot of white middle class families that don't have three months of expenses saved. Did PBS give that statistic?"
Probably very few do. But I would guess most of those (all 'middle class' regardless of race/heritage) have car payments, big flat screen tv's and a big chunk of credit card debt to buy all their 'stuff'.
26. Comment by Ralph K. (beatasuaolcom) — March 2,2008 @ 8:20AM Ratings: -6 +31 I'm normally sympathic to people who have been jerked around like Herman but he committed so many basic common sense mistakes that I can't have a lot of pity for him.
Can't get enough time to see the house? Why? Use the old inspection. Sure! Signs papers without reading them. Sounds OK to me.
I don't think that we can write enough laws to protect somebody who is this naive.
27. Comment by Terence C. (#6192) — March 2,2008 @ 8:22AM Ratings: -8 +8 The less a buyer knows about transactions, the more time they should be allowed to address problems.
Example: Gizzard makes a purchase and then occupies an unfit property. Once they discover their situation, the deal could be put into jeapordy unless arrangements are made to correct the problems facing the new owner.
The seller should be responsible to provide all information for existing errors and a plan for correcting those errors or have a fund set aside that the new owner could use to pay for reasonable corrections.
28. Comment by Art H. (Sandbags) March 2,2008 @ 8:28AM
Ratings: -2 +31
all this fretting and foaming, but one omission stands out like a sore thumb - why is there no mention of the Disclosure Report? was there one? what did it say? if this document was missing or fraudulent then we've got a major legal issue here. If it was there and essentially correct, it's going to be difficult.
29. Comment by Jose C. (angus) — March 2,2008 @ 8:32AM
Ratings: -16 +17 That story has more twists and turns than the road up to Mt. Lemmon. I do not doubt that the agent pressured the buyer to use the outdated inspection report.
That leads me to something. You have to wonder when the other inspection was done and whether or not the person who did it was qualified to do it. The stove problem obviously did not materialize overnight. Neither did the drain problems.
This particular paragraph speaks volumes.
"After the sale, Treece said she helped pay for service calls for Herman's heater. King also stayed in contact with Herman and Silveira for months afterward, and at one time offered $3,500 to Herman for repairs, much of it coming from Treece and DeConcini."
It "reads" like the agent and the designated broker, along with the seller knew there was problems with the house and tried to do what they could to keep their backsides out of hot water.
If you want a good real estate agent, stay away from Long. Use one of the smaller agencies, such as Exit on Broadway and Jessica.
30. Comment by jodi c. (emailJodi) — March 2,2008 @ 8:39AM Ratings: -12 +23 Poor me... what!? You are an adult! No sympathy. Funny to me how all of these loan increases are causing a new stir of whiners. You were all so happy a couple of years ago. No one's fault but your own as YOU are the one who signed up for it. Similar to those people who are sueing McDonalds for making them fat! Take responsibility already!The world is full of choices!
31. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 8:40AM Ratings: -13 +21 The Listing agent Suzie D. & the selling agent Pam T. both have Error & Omissions insurance policies.
Listing agent Suzie D. failed to disclose (*Just about Everything!)
The other agent Pam T. failed to represent in even the most basic areas. (*Didn't get an Independent Home Inspection because he couldn't afford one!!??)
**If the buyer can't afford a few hundred $$ for his own inspection then how the heck can he afford buying the house!!?? Duh!
This agent, Pam T. is either Incompetent or Ethically Challenged (that means Criminal)
Long Realty is in full CYA mode and so one if not both of these Scam artists should be thrown under the bus.
Next story should be on the Ethics investigation of both.
Call B.LaWall, ... She loves this sort of publicity crapp
32. Comment by Bob K. (lessthanzero) — March 2,2008 @ 9:10AM Ratings: -2 +8 I thought I read that the seller paid for a home warranty? How did that play into this mess? Could be that the "home warranty" was useless??
33. Comment by Rich K. (Richk) — March 2,2008 @ 9:14AM Ratings: -5 +10 #31 EXACTLY CORRECT !!!!!!.
Listing agent didn't disclose... Seling agent did not represent. If I was a real estate attorney, I'd take this one pro bono.
34. Comment by Jay W. (jay99) — March 2,2008 @ 9:19AM Ratings: -6 +8 Sounds like both sides are guilty on this one. Long Realty of greed, the buyer of stupidity. Ultimately the buyer had the responsibility to check out the deal and the ability to back out of it.
35. Comment by Rick L. (RickL) — March 2,2008 @ 9:19AM Ratings: -5 +13 #30 jodi c, I agree with your assessment of the buyers who jumped into these 0 down, low introductory rate loans however this article has nothing to do with the buyer being caught by the payment suddenly increasing, this buyer had a fixed interest rate. The whole process as described starts to get the spider sense tingling, if the agent didn't spot his obvious naivete she's as ignorant as he is. I'm a firm believer in taking responsibilty for one's actions and choices, however when the potential homebuyer is totally clueless there should have been some effort to guide him along a path that keeps his best interests intact. This was a shameful display of greed on the part of the seller and agent, in my opinion.
25 Michael B - I agree with you 100%. Many of these people also have no desire to change their pattern of behaviour because they won't beheld accountable for their wasteful spending. There will be a government program to keep them from realizing the full effects of their poor choices.
36. Comment by Mac F. (John Q. Citizen) — March 2,2008 @ 9:29AM
Ratings: -3 +14 Given the Star's reliance on advertising have to hand it to them for running this. However they did neglect to mention that the seller Hagyard, according to the Assessor's records, purchased the home in Dec 2004 for $68,700. The seller is identified as Deconcini's son. Deconcini is a Long vice-president, identified on their website as a Founder of the Long Realty Cares Foundation, which "reflects their compassionate heart, true spirit of generosity, and their sincere desire to improve the quality of life for citizens in Arizona". I would guess that the sale did improve Hagyard's quality of life - not so sure about Mr. Herman.
37. Comment by Kristina N. (Kristina) — March 2,2008 @ 9:50AM Ratings: -3 +24 As with mechanics, dentists and Macy's salespeople, there are the losers and the exceptional ones in each category.
We stumbled (by word of mouth) on a most wonderful Long's agent when we were searching for a house over 7 years ago.As first time home buyers, we were unsure of "everything", and Liz had only our interest at heart. She spent days looking for a house for us, and we spent days driving around with her looking at them. We had certain (to us) requirements, and not once, did she waste our time by showing houses (no matter how good the buy!) that did not meet the requested specifics. And, then, even though this house had only been on the market for 14 days, she got us a better price! She took us to see close to 200 homes, and this one is the PERFECT one! We were not living in this area, and so, she took care of everything. We saw that we could have complete faith in her to do everything favorable for us. And she did.
I have very little sympathy for "unaware" people (if you remember my comments about the D-M area buyers who are screaming about aircraft flying overhead!), but in this case, I do think the buyer might have been duped. Sure, he should have checked out things for himself: run the faucets, check the drains, turn on the furnace,etc. Make sure these things are functioning properly. However, for the seller not to disclose such problems (and especially to an elderly person!)is unconscionable. Was the property being advertised as a "fixer-upper"? How long was it on the market? Maybe nobody wanted this run down problem house, and they finally found a "sucker." It's sad.
38. Comment by Mike J. (Kundalini) — March 2,2008 @ 9:53AM Ratings: -4 +16 Inspections are a gyp anyway. I hired a guy to check out a place and he didn't even crawl through the crawl space to inspect the air conditioning ducts. When I asked why there was cold air coming out from the access point I was told all manufactured homes do that. I crawled down there myself and found that pack rats had chewed holes through the ducts. And I had to pay this A-hole to get it on record!
I have no sympathy for these guys. Its like buying a used car, buyer beware!
39. Comment by Brenda J. (psiartist) — March 2,2008 @ 9:54AM Ratings: -6 +11 I recall an A frame house I wanted to buy more than I ever wanted in my life. I made 2 offers on it. A gal from CA got an offer in and got it. I talked to her 2 years later. Found that she right away had to re-roof it and had to replace the septic tank. I had been told of no problems while I was bidding. I was SO happy I did not get it.
40. Comment by Hilda G. (Hilda) — March 2,2008 @ 10:02AM Ratings: -7 +11 Tracee's huband is a real estate agent and was not the loan officer.
My question is: Did Tracee cover every line of the contract and explain the risks involved by not obtaining an inspection report? If so, the buyer is on his own.
It was not unusual, during the boom, to offer a quick closing date. It also was not unusual, during the boom, to purchase the property in "as is" condition. The article does not mention this possibility.
I have no sympathy for a buyer signing a loan appliction without reading it. Income was inflated? Funny the buyer finds it now. Now that he's "looking" for something.
This is an unfortunate situation and one that was repeated hundreds of times during the boom.
What is the buyer looking for? Long to buy them another house?
Buyer beware of using ANY affiliates of the real estate company. Inspection company, title company, termite company, home warranty company, insurance company, etc. In my mind, appraisers don't appraise any more. They can always find comps to jusify the sales price ON THE CONTRACT COPY THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE BEFORE DOING THE APPRAISAL.
Realtors have their favorite loan officers and many (not all) loan officers will do whatever to make the deal work. It insures repeat business from the realtor. Greed running amuck!
41. Comment by Richard M. (rsm45va) — March 2,2008 @ 10:12AM Ratings: -12 +14 The buyer is 88 years old. Me thinks me smells a rat.
42. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 10:15AM Ratings: -8 +14 Aren't inspectors supposed to be licensed like contractors? If they are then why not go after the inspector as well as the agents?
43. Comment by Richard M. (rsm45va) — March 2,2008 @ 10:16AM Ratings: -6 +15 Wait a minute. Check out the pictures. The people are using a camping stove INDOORS ! Brilliant!
44. Comment by James B. (jamesjb) — March 2,2008 @ 10:21AM Ratings: -16 +12 Buyer beware of Long!
45. Comment by Sarah L. (sarahley) — March 2,2008 @ 10:25AM Ratings: -23 +28 I am a Realtor with Long Realty Company. I've been with the company for over 7 years. Long Realty is not the 'big bad wolf' that this article painted it to be.
I thought the article was very one-sided and biased to the buyer's perspective. Instead of Silveria and Herman admitting that they made a bad decision to buy the house, they blamed Long Realty for all of the problems they encountered after their purchase. Welcome to home ownership. Every home has its issues. If they weren't willing to deal with those issues, they should have bought a different home or stuck with renting a home. Why did they buy in the first place if they couldn't afford it? And why are the issues the home has or had the agents' faults?
Realtors are not home inspectors, nor can we force our clients to pay for a home inspection when they don't want to spend the money. Our job is to present options to the buyer and offer advice based on our experience. The buyer calls the shots in a real estate transaction, not the agent. Just because the loan officer 'left the state' doesn't mean there was a conspiricy, as the article implies.
It sounds to me like their agent, Pam Treece, did a lot to try and help them both before and after the sale. Despite the way the article made it sound, pressure (even if it existed) from an agent is not a gun to the head! Nor is ignorance an excuse. I am sorry the buyer lost their home.
It's unfortunate that Long was painted with such a brittle brush. Long Realty (and its affiliates) do a lot to give back to the Tucson community. The Long Realty Cares Foundation has helped local charaties to the tune of over $1 million dollars since its inception five years ago. Long's annual assistance to Habitat for Hummanity builds a house a year for needy families in Tucson.
I am highly disappointed in Smythe's reporting on this story. And therin lies a great deal of the ignorance when only one side of a story is presented.
46. Comment by Majors L. (theduke) — March 2,2008 @ 10:29AM Ratings: -16 +18 Sarah L.
Anyone who is successful in business is a target for the Star. T
They are ignorant of the way things work outside of their rhetoric based dreams.
47. Comment by Liz T. (Nickname) — March 2,2008 @ 10:49AM Ratings: -15 +5 The article said Long paid a home warranty premium. Did the owner let it lapse? If not, why were the problems not covered? They are all of the kind that would be.
If you buy a home that old, you have to expect that all the major systems will need attention unless they have already been updated. I see unbelievable on th part of the buyer and a readiness to take advantage on the part of the seller and agent.
48. Comment by T S. (shado) — March 2,2008 @ 10:49AM Ratings: -4 +13 #22 - "#17 Bob - I know a whole lot of white middle class families that don't have three months of expenses saved. Did PBS give that statistic?"
"Probably very few do. But I would guess most of those (all 'middle class' regardless of race/heritage) have car payments, big flat screen tv's and a big chunk of credit card debt to buy all their 'stuff'."
Actually...I'm one of those. NO savings. I don't even own a credit card, we simply pay our mortgage (less than $1000/mo, car,utilities, food, and help our kids when needed. NO health insurance,no dental, no luxeries (no boat, no quad, no camper). We have no big screen TV just an old 20inch from 20 years ago. We get poorer every year. We make less now than we did 5 years ago in the same job. Why? inflation.
When we went to buy a home, we had an appointment with Pinnacle, recommended by the company we worked for at the time. We didn't like the sleanisness of the person and how he would "try" to get us into a house. We left as fast as we could and went with a more reputable company. So always use your instincts, read the fine print, and insist on your rights because if you sign the dotted line it means you knew enough to put your name on it. We were pressured into several homes, but didn't feel right about them so said No. I'm glad we did. There's always another house out there.
49. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 10:56AM Ratings: -18 +16 Ok Sarah, you are a realtor. Explain the failure to disclose by Suzie D.
Explain Pam T. allowing an old inspection report to be used.
Explain Pam T's failure to represent.
You think that the article was one sided but you ignore the facts.
Come on, address the facts as stated in the article, don't just wave the Long Realty flag.
50. Comment by Sarah L. (sarahley) — March 2,2008 @ 11:11AM Ratings: -14 +20 Gene,
Not sure what you mean by 'failure to disclose by Suzie D.' It is legal for a licensee to represent a family member in the purchase or sale of real estate, as long as it is disclosed. There was no mention of non-disclosure on DeConcini's part.
Pam T. did not make the decision to use the old inspection report. The buyer made that decsion (to rely on it) instead of spending the money to have their own inspection.
With all due respect, sir- it seems to me like you've already made up your own mind based on what I believe was an omisson of facts in this article.
51. Comment by MARGIE W. (MARGIE37) — March 2,2008 @ 11:12AM Ratings: -4 +21 I sold two and bought one house during the "boom". To do this, I interviewed 5 real estate agents to see who I wanted to work with. The one my husband and I picked turned out to be a gem.
I probably took due dilligence to the extreme with the house we bought. I went down to Pima County to pull permits on the home, checked the setbacks from property lines, even interviewed home inspectors, and I followed them around while they did the home inspection.
With all that, after we got into the home we found dry wall that had been water damaged(covered up by furniture), had electrical mislabelings that blew up $7,000 of our electronics(our electrician should have caught the problem, but the inspector totally missed the mislabeled wires first), and finally, the septic tank inspection was TOTALLY WRONG, AND FILED THAT WAY WITH PIMA COUNTY. Cummings Plumbing said our tank was one place, when in fact it was located on the other end of our lot. In my mind this was huge, what if we had started digging and found out the hard way? Then I argued with Cummings to do another inspection and correct the papers with the County and they wanted to charge me. A manager said if we sold the property, to have the buyers give him a call!!! I had to call the County and get them involved before Cummings would budge.
I tell this story as a warning that if someone like me, that really tried to dot my i's and cross my t's, can have problems, an 88 year old man is a sitting duck for problems.
52. Comment by bud m. (bud man) — March 2,2008 @ 11:25AM Ratings: -10 +28 1) Let's see, the guy buys a house with zero down and loses it 12 months later. It takes 90 days to foreclose in Arizona, and most banks don't start foreclosure until you are 3 months behind. So it sounds like this guy made only 6 payments of $920, that works out to $460 per month for the year he lived there, sounds cheap to me.
2) The Star's graph shows that prices continued to rise for a short time after he bought the home, so he was ahead for a while.
3) Many buyers during the boom years had been watching too many episodes of "Flip This House" and didn't care about problems because homes went up in price by 3% a month, and if you bought a fix up this just compounded your profit.
4) I predict that you will see more stories like this in the years ahead.
5) Nobody knew when the boom would end, but everyone by 2007 should have been able to see that it was coming soon.
6) These agents, had they refused to sell the guy this house probably would have read their names in the paper as having discriminated against him due to age,income or some other reason.
7) Had the boom continued and this guy made money he would have loved these two agents.
8) He gambled and lost.
9) I am not now, nor have I ever been employed by Long Realty or its affiliates.
53. Comment by Mac F. (John Q. Citizen) — March 2,2008 @ 11:33AM Ratings: -9 +9 The home was built in 1943 and assessed last year at $33,000. It is notable in this article that no complaint was filed with Az. Dept Real Estate ( identified to me as a notorious den of thieves ), but was filed with Az. Attorney General, which unfortunately several years ago had to shut down their Office of Consumer Fraud and White Collar Crime because of 'budget constraints' identified by your Az. State Legislature, thus losing decades of experience and expertise. At that same time the City of Tucson closed their Office of Consumer Affairs for the same reason. Likewise it turns out there is no money to in Az. to investigate the massive appraisal scam that has been going on for years. The numerous realtors and other business lackeys piling in on this article are exactly right to blame the victim - he never had a chance in this state and should have known it.
54. Comment by Jennie J. (jenniej) — March 2,2008 @ 11:50AM Ratings: -11 +16 All the facts are not correct in the story and many facts were left out.
The paper told their version of the story. I have heard other versions that are more believable.
55. Comment by maud r. (maud) — March 2,2008 @ 12:18PM Ratings: -4 +15 With the rate of homes coming down drastically WHEN are our real estate taxes being lowered as drastically.
56. Comment by George D. (dj2) — March 2,2008 @ 12:25PM Ratings: -6 +7 There is a deep problem with the buyer’s agent incentive system that contributed significantly to the real estate meltdown. The buyer’s agent interest is to close the deal faster and on higher price, while the buyer interest is to buy property with good value (exactly the opposite of the buyer’s agent). In this particular case the buyer was elderly and the buyer’s agents forgo the ethics and exploited the weakness. Being buyer’s agent got to be difficult profession where one has to balance between ethics and profit.
57. Comment by Paul M. (Midi) — March 2,2008 @ 12:39PM Ratings: -15 +11 LOL - nobodys taking the Long way home now!
HeckofaPonziScheme!
58. Comment by Sam F. (sidereally) — March 2,2008 @ 1:12PM Ratings: -5 +13 It's weird how the article states this man is 81 years old, yet a couple of the posters in this comment section have managed to add 7 years to his age. (Short attention spans?)
59. Comment by bud m. (bud man) — March 2,2008 @ 1:28PM Ratings: -12 +16 Yesterday I pulled into a convenience store to buy gasoline. While paying, the clerk asked me if I wanted to buy a lottery ticket. I said ok, and guess what, I didn't win. That clerk knew I wouldn't win and coerced me into making a bad decision.
60. Comment by Art H. (sandbags) — March 2,2008 @ 1:32PM Ratings: -12 +9 "Explain the failure to disclose by Suzie D." I, too, wonder why Gene keeps hitting on Suzie. It is the seller who is responsible for disclosing the known condition of the property. The agent simply passes along the report. Failure to do that would be a major legal issue, but I don't see that here.
But even Disclosure Reports have limited value simply because you have to prove that the owner was lying. Proving the problem existed before the sale is meaningless. That's why someone like Brenda 39 is stuck - septic and roof problems can exist for a long time before they are noticed. (That's where home warranties come into play.)
as jennie astutely points out - we don't know what we don't know.
61. Comment by rose j. (meowzer) — March 2,2008 @ 2:19PM Ratings: -12 +7 The home sales disaster was caused by one thing...a greedy, predatory financial industry trying to cash in on *short term profits!!!This should never have been allowed to happen. Regulations exist for good reason! Time and time again numerous industries have shown their inability to play by the rules unless they are forced to. The result...things like this. To blame the consumer is like saying the innocent person killed in a drive-by shooting was stupid for being in his front yard. He thought his yard was safe, most yards are. But yards can be very deceptive and you need to investigate carefully before you step through that door. Got shot..oh well..you should have know better idiot! Sounds ridiculous.
There is NO EXCUSE for the unconscionable actions of the greedy financial institutions that created a disaster the rest of us are stuck dealing with.
62. Comment by NightHawk P. (NightHawk) — March 2,2008 @ 2:40PM Ratings: -5 +17 Do you check out a car before you buy it? You can bet we checked out each property we bought over the years. That includes what each State and county had planned for those areas. No sales person ever pushed me to buy something I didn't want. You have no one to blame but yourself if you bought property you can't afford or made a loan you can't pay.
63. Comment by MARGIE W. (MARGIE37) — March 2,2008 @ 2:49PM Ratings: -4 +13 #58 You are correct sir, the age of the gentleman in the article is reported to be 81, not 88, as I typed. My mistake, I was thinking of my sweet neighbor, who in fact is 88.
Nice to know the art of "splitting hairs" is not lost on you.
64. Comment by Jeff L. (livingston) — March 2,2008 @ 3:04PM Ratings: -15 +3 This issue is a poor example and not directly related the housing lending crises. The problem is Freddi-Mac could have insured subprime and ALT A Mortgage for a very reasonable cost with private mortgage insurance and thus insure these loans against the risk of default, similar to how we insure FHA loans today. Thus, hedge funds originators and purchasers of these securities would then still have the confidence to maintain these mortgage notes in their portfolio's and would have not devaluated their securities by over 20%, thus further eroding investors confidence.
In addition, these lenders would have continued to originate NEW LOANS thus absorbing the inventory of these excess homes on the market with new buyers.
Now that we have very few subprime lenders left, the rates are now 8.75-10%, with elimination of provisions such as business bank statements for alternative income for self employed people, excessive high FICO scores of 720 or above, elimination of seller carrybacks, we have fewer and fewer people qualifying for these loans today than ever before.
However, we also have an arrogant President who does not want to help the banking industry and a Congress who wants to shift the blame to the lenders that everybody entered into predatory loans and everybody got shafted, and now we have a new law pending in the Senate that will have bankruptcy judges rewrite mortgages thus diluting the value of collateralize mortgages even further and this will result again in higher interest rates and fewer people qualifying for new loans.
Our housing crises will become a meltdown if Hillary is elected. She wants permanent freezes on interest rates, tighter underwriting guidelines, which will result in higher rates and more costs to the borrowers to obtain mortgages. Obama, does not want to freeze interest rates because of the economic impact it would have in the housing market. Hillary wants to continue to over regulate the lending market, which will result in fewer products and fewer sales of new homes with no fed rate reductions translating into the incentive for Subprime or ALT A lenders to produce new loans.
65. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 3:09PM Ratings: -9 +13 Art, I have another question you might answer. How is Pam T. allowed to circulate an inspection report she didn't pay for or that the buyer in this case didn't pay for?
If she used an "Old Inspection", then who paid for that inspection?
If she used it, then that is Fraud.
If an agent will commit that act of Fraud, what other acts of Fraud have they committed?
As for Susie's failure to disclose, I mean give us all a break. The Heater didn't work! So you would have us believe she didn't know that! And, ... it was her son's property.
Art, you are a Real Estate Spin Meister.
66. Comment by rick d. (ranchguy) — March 2,2008 @ 3:57PM Ratings: -6 +11 #61
"The home sales disaster was caused by one thing...a greedy, predatory financial industry trying to cash in on *short term profits!!"
wrong. No matter how many others are involved in a real estate purchase, the buyer ultimately must conduct all due diligence and accept the property and the title at close of escrow.
Silveria and Herman should NEVER have completed that transaction. They bought too high in the wrong swing of the market and could not financially handle it- period.
67. Comment by MARGIE W. (MARGIE37) — March 2,2008 @ 4:05PM Ratings: -5 +8 Please forgive me in advance if I don't use the proper terminology to try and make my point..I'm a well read layperson, but not a financial consultant.
The financial industries have been lowering their credit standards for years. When defaults started creeping up a few years back, they cried to Congress, who wiped their tears with tougher bankruptcy laws. Next, credit/mortgage businesses lowered standards for who could qualify for home loans. Don't tell me they didn't build into their business models that a certain percentage of those loans would default.
Ultimately, they lost at their own game, when a perfect storm of factors came up that the lenders did not anticipate, i.e. "flippers" that walked away from homes, cascading devaluations, market glut. Wall Street got it's tenticles into the fray, packaging loans into investments on the Exchange. Recipe for disaster, IMHO.
I had a heck of a time just getting a Visa credit card in the 80's, twice I was rejected for not having enough of a "credit history." I had never defaulted on anything, I had no credit! When I finally "qualified" 20+ years ago, it was always the first bill I paid. Fast forward to the 90's, and Visa and their ilk have booths set up on the UA campus during registration to sign up the new crop of 18 year olds. Visible source of income? Mom and Dad...
FHA has not kept up on rising home costs, but even if it had, I would venture a guess that a vast majority of those who took out sub prime or ARM's would not have qualified for FHA anyway. Nor would many of the properties for sale have passed FHA inspection...for instance, the home foreclosed on in the article.
I am NOT excusing anyone who has no money sense, and borrows more than they can afford to pay back.
What I resent now is my availability of credit being affected, my money in the bank making a pittance in interest, and the economy tanking because ignorant people bit off more than they could chew, and greedy financial jerks made off with the real money.
A free market still has to have rules...if the powers that be will not play nice, we need laws to make them.
68. Comment by Glen S. (GetSmart) — March 2,2008 @ 4:09PM Ratings: -8 +14 The age of the gentleman has been raised many times and I'd like to know why as licensed real estate agents and lenders cannot act differently based on the age of the person involved. To do so would lead them to be in violation of the law. It appears that the borrower purchased a home he couldn't afford and because the home didn't jump in value (as it had in the years before he bought the house)he was a victim. I don't buy it. He signed many, many documents and forms that showed the monthly payment he would have and he still acted to move forward.
The fact that Susie DeConcini is related to the seller isn't an issue. Who wouldn't use their mother to sell their home, especially one as experienced as Susie.
The slant on the writing of this article is quite unfair to the professionals involved. It appears that most of the comments are expressing frustration about the housing market in general but are unfortuantely casting blame unfairly on this situation.
As a lender who is not a part of this transaction, I must say that my customers often comment about the numerous, frequently repetitive, disclosures that they must sign at the time of application and closing. This is done to insure that someone can't later claim that they weren't properly informed. That appears to be the case here.
Imagine having a customer who isn't satisfied with the product that your company is selling. How would you feel to have taken steps to help this customer before and after closing only to have your good faith actions written in the newspaper in such a way as to invite the entire community to call you a cheat and a fraud. Shame on the Star for reporting in this fashion.
Why don't you devote a series on proactively helping your readers learn about their rights and making sure they are fully informed?
69. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 4:56PM Ratings: -10 +11 Headline - "Real Estate Bedfellows Circle the Wagons".
Thank Glen S. for your "We're All in Bed Together" spin.
Kiss, Kiss from all the Real Estate Scam Artists.
I actually heard defenders of the Corrupt and Bankrupt First Magnus Gang.
Right till the end, ... when the Armed Security Guards locked the doors.
So Suzie, ... "The Mom", didn't ask her son, ... The Wanna Be, if the furnace worked!!??
Duh!
Pam T. admits, IN THIS ARTICLE, to committing FRAUD!!, ... by using someone else's inspection report. (Looks Like Long Agents are Ethically Challenged)
Yes, Spin, Spin, Spin your way home Glen and the other Real Estate Bedfellows.
I think I hear an Attorney in the distance.
Can we say, ... "Law Suit"!
70. Comment by Sam F. (sidereally) — March 2,2008 @ 5:02PM Ratings: -3 +11 Margie, I didn't realize that you were "thinking about your neighbor" when you typed the man in this article's age as 88.
...But then again, I had no idea that you had an 88 year old neighbor. (congratulations to him on being 88!)
I had simply commented on the fact that two people had gotten this man's age wrong, and since it's not the first time a fact had transmogrified from the article to the comments section I felt an urge to 'split hairs' in an effort to stay factual and on point.
I was not taking a deliberate swipe at you personally, more of a 'straw that broke the camel's back' in regards to facts being overlooked or distorted in the comments section that pushed me over the edge.
"Short attention span?" might not have been the nicest way to put it, and I apologize if I hurt your feelings for getting this man's age confused with your neighbors age, but as I stated above, I should not be expected to know that you were referring to anyone other than the man in this article.
Excellent point of view on #67, by the way, it is right on the mark in several aspects regarding what has happened to our credit market the past 30 years.
71. Comment by James B. (jamesjb) — March 2,2008 @ 5:07PM Ratings: -5 +13 Long's programs for "giving back to the community" are actually part of their marketing strategies. Sure the company and employees help the community but this is meant to increase name recognition and drum up business. Thus it is not altruism, just business. There is nothing wrong with that, but let's call it what it is.
72. Comment by d.t. o. (obrien) — March 2,2008 @ 5:30PM Ratings: -11 +9 #65 Gene
The inspection report usage by persons who did not pay for it is the only real issue. The rest is all smoke an mirrors.
It was a fixed rate mortgage. Unlike the real predatory lending going on, they were not suddenly surprised by a mortgage payment that went up several hundred dollars in one year. It was a fixed rate.
Hate to see this happen to people but they got themselves a mortgage with a monthly payment equal to half of their income, not rocket science that it is going to be a tough payment to make every month.
73. Comment by Gene M. (#5430) — March 2,2008 @ 5:43PM Ratings: -12 +12 d.t. you are correct, ... except BOTH Suzie D. & Pam T. committed FRAUD!
How did Pam T. get this inspectors report??
Maybe from Suzie D.!!!
End of story: This is FRAUD by both agents.
Who paid for this inspectors report??
Was this report slanted in the sellers favor??
Ethical Charges on BOTH agents and Brokers MUST be filed.
Stop the Real estate Spin. Clean your own house and boot those that break the rules.
I still hear a law suit coming, coming, coming 'round the bend.
74. Comment by MARGIE W. (MARGIE37) — March 2,2008 @ 6:38PM Ratings: -2 +9 #70 Sam..you do have a point, one wrong misquote can change the story/report. I should be more careful. Thank you for your kind words.
And on point, I feel we really do not have enough facts in this family's case to be passing judgement for either side. From what the reporter has written, assumptions can be made that could be skewed to either side's defense.
Offer the offical closing papers for the home and the loan, along with the problems found in the home immediately after closing up for scrutiny by the proper authorities, and let the cards fall where they may.
These types of home loss stories may be the ones making headlines now, but I fear in the months ahead they may become too numerous to count...or recount.
75. Comment by Nicki N. (NicNeff) — March 2,2008 @ 6:48PM Ratings: -6 +15 I am a REALTOR with Long Realty and it sure does sound like some people have an opinion about Long Realty that NO ONE will ever change. As REALTORS we are independent contractors and I feel we should all be judged individually. I prefer to work with home buyers (vs. sellers) and I am proud to say that I have assisted several first time home buyers make their dreams come true. I chose this field because of the satisfaction I get from helping others. Do you get paid to do your job? Well, so do we. I donate time and money to my community and never once do I involve my career in my charity work. I would love to send anyone a copy of the "We Notice our Buyers" document that Long Realty requires all buyers to sign. This document lists very important information for the buyer including a full list of recommended inspections. As agents we are here to assist are clients any way we can. One of the things we do is offer recommendations on various companies that perform services needed by our clients. A good agent should refer at least 2 qualified individuals per required service and let their client decide who best fits their needs. Buying and selling homes can be a very emotional experience for people; I don’t recommend you do it alone. The important thing is to know and trust your agent, be informed and ask questions. If you feel pressure from your agent ask them to slow down. If you don’t understand the documents they are asking you to s | |
